Aaaaaaaannnnddddd…Anyhow, here’s Chico stylin’ on everyone, slide 2.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DChXwIoJm-f/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
- adds ledge front lipslides to the ‘relearn as an old fucker’ list
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No one has accused you of this.
What is the hang up here? Your responses seem very over-reactionary and you are making up that you are being persecuted when people just seem to be responding really respectably.
Just…slow your roll.
Also, yes. You view on trans women is different to mine. But I’ll use that old addage (because it works really well)…
It’s not your body. Stop deciding for other peoples bodies.
Backing @thatch up a bit here. I agree with a lot of what you’re saying (Don’t want to assume your gender!)
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Apologies. For the record, I don’t think you were being prejudiced. I was being mischievous with my ‘Freudian slip’ comment.
So I guess I approach this question from a different perspective. I am really interested in the history of sexuality, and there is an argument that, contrary to expectations, past societies were more tolerant than we might imagine. It’s just it was tolerance on their terms and not ones we might recognise today. eg. There were times, before the modern period, when men could have close relationships with other men, potentially sexual ones, and that was not seen as some aftont to their masculine status or standing in society.
Tracing laws and legal freedoms only tells part of the story - it provides a Whiggish narrative of increasing sexual liberation, which is partly true, but downplays things like wider societal values and culture. These narratives allow us to be complacent. I would say that things have shifted towards intolerance in the last few years with the rise of the populist right. In terms of legal freedoms, we have seen the role back of abortion rights in the US. We have seen crackdowns on LGBT+ rights in places like Poland. We have unleashed a vocal, reactionary mens’ rights movement via social media. These suggest to me that, no, we are not in the most tolerant place we have ever been, even if we have made some great gains as you suggest.
I think this almost impossible to solve without excluding one group or infringing on the position of another. I would suggest taking things case by case, sport by sport. But I acknowledge this would not be perfect by any means.
I do not think Sex Matters is a good faith organisation. Helen Joyce has said some pretty hurtful things, and I think their aim of changing the Equality Act is regressive.
The Kathleen Stock episode was messy and no one came out of it looking great. However, she has supported organisations that want to limit rights for trans people. The students had a right to protest that.
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Okay, slowing my roll…
You’re right - no one has explicitly used the word bigot towards me, though I feel it has been implied a few times:
“I put it down to some people just don’t believe ‘trans’ is a real thing”
Also
“This just sounds like an excuse to hold TERFy opinions”
Both of which were levelled at me.
I explained why I feel strongly on the issue when I was asked why I do, and I’ve tried to be mindful in my responses and attempted to understand why other people feel the way they feel about it.
I guess I’m just genuinely curious how we have reach this point as a society where we are having to explain things such as why a man shouldn’t enter into a boxing ring to fight against a woman etc.
I also really enjoy discussion and debates, I’m not trying to offend, or make myself out to be persecuted or whatever, I just think it’s one of the defining topics of our time and am really interested to hear peoples perspectives, that’s all.
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Great response
Appreciate you clarifying that the Freudian slip thing was in jest, it’s often hard to tell the nuances with text alone.
Re Kathleen Stock - I guess I also view things from a different perspective - instead of, and I’m gonna paraphrase your text because I’m on my phone so can’t quote it, “she is working with organisations lessening trans rights”, could it be argued that she is merely seeking to maintain existing womens rights? And a byproduct of maintaining womens rights is that the wishes of the trans community are at odds with those rights in places…?
Same topic, completely different way of seeing it. She’s on record as repeatedly stating that she thinks the rights of trans folks are very important, and I believe that she’s sincere when she says that, I think she (and others like her) are concerned about the overlapping places where the existing rights of women are not being upheld in the name of others.
It’s a really complex issue, and I don’t want to flog a dead horse if everyone is sick of hearing my thoughts on it - but I just want to point out that this isn’t just some half-baked idea born out of malice on my part, I just was really deeply affected personally by the fallout from my experience at the charity (mentioned earlier) and so for the last few years I’ve been doing a lot of reading / podcasting on the subject, from both sides, and it’s a really interesting phenomenon that we are facing currently where as a society we are effectively choosing to discount biological reality, all of a sudden there is apparently no difference between the sexes anymore, that’s a really huge shift in public perception and it seems to be happening with the best of intentions, by people who genuinely feel as though this is the way forward - I’m just skeptical, and feel that such a foundational shift in how we see biological reality is to be given as much scrutiny as possible to ensure that we are not infact making a mistake, though a well-intentioned one at that
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I know this an important topic to learn from and the only way of doing so is by talking about it. However…
Can we just post some clips of fully grown men playing with a wooden toy in here?
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Here ya go…
I know it’s not insta but you should never need an excuse to post this
Hang on, Thatch’s posts read a lot like a ChatGPT Bot…
But then he? posted a sick obscure Andy Scott Death part!
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I’m not a bot I’m just neurodivergent but yeah Scotty is obviously goated
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I did think about this earlier 
It was more I just thought Max got smashed for not knowing everything that he was / wasn’t supposed to know.
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Likewise Iv been on here in whatever form for 19 years. I just thought it was a rather abrupt end to it that was all. Maybe I read the wrong end of the stick just thought Max gets smashed and yer we don’t know everything about what to do or not.
I have no opinion on trans people by the way. Doesn’t affect me so whatevs, I just like fs biggies.
Regarding competitive sport, I’m not a woman so I don’t have an opinion on trans women in women’s sports. Not my call.
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Posted some Chico stuff a few posts above 
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Your whole post was great, @nedertron - but this line is epic.
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We need a Continually updated straight cis men debating LGBTQ+ issues thread
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not sure he realised the fnarness though.
The trouble with men arguing about other peoples business is that we always miss the point that our opinions differ because we’re different people and yet we treat other types of peoples as ones with blanket views. Women have varying views on these things, Trans people have varying views on these things and certainly have different reasonings for having them and doing what they want.
Also, I thought it was obvious who Thatch was but hey ho.
Don’t matter
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The struggle I have with a lot of discourse around trans rights is how it always seems to come back to sport, rather than giving trans people the opportunity to exist safely in the world just like anyone else.
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Homies writing full novels on a niche skate forum full of blokes on a Monday night
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You/I/we don’t struggle.
