Iconic skate ?
Cover/video/photo?
Extended pub lunch was it?
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ploughmans.
Sorry, I donāt follow. What do you mean? You use Instagram as a market research tool?
Perhaps this place, if promoted in the right way, can take up the mantle of gate keeper/discussion point/UK skateboarding hub which has been missing recently.
People often decry āalgorithmsā using the word as a catch-all term to describe things they donāt properly understand that tech companies are somehow responsible for and so must be evil.
I was suggesting that the role of such algorithms is somewhat akin to the interpretation and application of sales and marketing data previously used to justify the existence or distribution of a media production.
What I wasnāt clear about is that algorithms as used by the main platforms under discussion today are way better than any previously available data or its interpretation.
I donāt see how algorithms written by humans and improved by millions that use them through meritocratic definitions of success somehow prevent critical thought or constitute authoritarian governance.
I would suggest that the level of beholdenment 
is less for an independent outlet than one within a traditional publishing stable. Having been privy to some internal debates by staff working at some of your examples itās clear that the decisions are primarily theirs, and when they hold their ground this has been respected by the large shoe brands.
The debates have more nuance and - having removed a layer of publisher control - what you might call edgier decisions can be taken.
This is another step in the right direction.
When was this? When did this last happen?
I wasnāt being literal with that one. I was raising the idea that we might all be heading towards some sci-fi, virtual dystopia as a way to moralise about the changes the internet has brought about culturally.
Youāre right, algorithms do expose us to a whole wave of ācontentā we wouldnāt have otherwise known about, which is undeniably a good thing. But is the feeling of allowing Spotify to recommend us a song the same as having discovered it on your own? It feels less authentic to me and dehumanises the whole discovery process, which I think is crucial for the way people identify with certain aspects of a culture and the way they articulate their own identities. Young people now can pick form a whole array of clothing styles, musical genres, expressions of self etc. but do they feel any ownership of them? Is being a goth one day and a roadman the next, the same as being a goth forever? WHERE ARE THEIR SHIT EMO TATTOOS MAN?!
I am also hugely suspicious of how these algorithms work and, you are totally correct, I havenāt got much of an idea how they do (any suggestions fore reading on that one would be greatly appreciated). But, judging by a purely skate example, Revive and Braille were very good at working out how to get YouTube to recommend their videos over other skate-related content for quite a while. They built up large followings and, importantly, subscriber numbers and have been able to maintain their visibility off of the back of it. Now, Iām not going to bitch about these dudes. What they did was remarkably cannie for a skateboarder. But, to me, a lot of these recommended videos and Instagram explore page features depend on having a large number of views, likes and follower/subscriber numbers. That, for me, leaves the algorithms open to manipulation. If you can buy enough likes, you can be featured. The people therefore controlling social media culture are often from privileged backgrounds. Am I totally off of the mark with this one? Itās an idea Iāve had for a while but never really know if it was true.
This happens all the time.
Yes it is sometimes a clear cut case of standing your ground on a big topic, several recent cases of which Iām aware of but judging by my use of words like āprivyā and āinternalā suggest Iām not going to betray the confidence of the parties concerned and reveal specific examples.
More often the forum for this power play is more transient. It is a quick question at the end of a phone call, an innocuous suggestion raised in a meeting, clarification of some small print, querying financial numbers with a corporate accountant, friendly chat with a TM over a meal on the corporate card. In each case the mag might humbly be expected to take course A, which may have always been the way. But now - more independent and with fewer background puppeteers - they are able to take course B.
While it sucks that Transworld have gone out of print and people have lost their jobs, Iād choose this publishing environment over any previous one without hesitation.
How do you discover things on your own? Iād love to understand a scenario in which no other party is remotely involved. Browsing through a shop? A mateās recommendation? Heard it on the radio? All variations of the Spotify recommendation.
How is this suggestion of manipulation any different to figuring out how to get your rider on the cover of the print mag?
Iāll tell you, we at last have platforms in which creative, quirky outsiders can get their voice heard, increasing the breadth of conversation and providing a safe haven for previously excluded minorities.
Thatās not really accurate though, here in 2019.
Yes, youāre right, other parties are involved. But these are humans rather than something abstract and I think thatās important. The random element of human subjectivity is lost. Isnāt there a danger with algorithm recommendations you end up with the same sort of content as you started out consuming?
Also, Iām not convinced the internet is a democratising tool which allows for loads of diversity. People seem to have got it sussed out. The majority of British influencers seem to be young, privileged and mainly white.
This reminds me of the time I welcomed a Google employee to the security reception of my building for a meeting and the security guard was blown away that people actually worked at Google, āI thought it was all machinesā he half-jokingly saidā¦
Anyway, if you have friends you have chosen, or listen to radio stations of your own volition, or browse in one shop over another, then yes you might end up with the same sort of content you started out consuming. The random element of human subjectivity remains a guide for us in all circumstances digital or otherwise.
Weāre far more aware of and empowered to address preexisting human inequalities thanks to the internet, so the casual observer might indeed confuse increased awareness of those issues with increased instances of them. I canāt say if the British influencers you follow more accurately represent the society they live in or the particular tastes you have.
Ah, youāre just far more clued up than a prole like me. Back to smashing up the looms I go!
By the by, just received another automated message when replying to this thread:
Consider replying to more people
Youāve already replied 3 times to @unclesomeone in this particular topic.
Have you considered replying to other people in the discussion, too? A great discussion involves many voices and perspectives.
If youād like to continue your conversation with this particular user at length, send them a personal message.
Will turn those off. Thatās well annoying.
Edit: Fixed
Fuck āinfluencersā first and foremost. A shower of vaccuous, useless and insipid shites.
Iād say the reverse is true, that the democratising of standards, knowledge, creativity and technology is huge thanks to the internet - information and knowledge is no longer the preserve of the privileged and pasty gammons. Personally, Iāve made my career through following online tutorials and workflows in various programs - pre-internet, that knowledge was via on-the-job training or by reading a manual, rather than building expertise with a cracked copy of After Effects.
Itās the same, and more obvious, with music and photography. Nowadays, everybody has access to Garageband or similar. ProTools, Logic, Ableton, etc. are all pro standard portable studios which put creating music in the hands of whoever wants it, without having to go through gatekeepers or huge record companies.
Now the flipside is that some recording industry businesses have suffered and shut down, such as record shops (more due to the distribution and sale than creative process, but still, enabled by the web) and some bands who wouldāve made it big in the 90s now get drowned out by having to compete with more people - youāve now got to shout louder to be heard and simply be better in order to be seen.
Photo-journalism as a job seems to be both harder to get into and less desirable from a news point of view due to cameras in phones, cheap DSLRs and social media. Not that long ago, local newspapers and news agencies had local photographers either as staff or on a retainer, but all that has been cut over the past 10-20 years as itās now easier and cheaper to do without them.
As for knowledge, there are tutorials and instructionals for literally everything you might want to do online - photoshop, sushi making, how to re-wire a plug, bake a cake, fix a bike tyre, build a concrete transition, whatever floats your boat. Thereās so much more potential knowledge, skill and ability out there to be had through your phone or laptop and thatās all due to the internet.
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This was the bit I was commenting on mainly - doesnāt a personās ability to shout loudest depend on their access to resources? i.e. their wealth? Iāve been struck how recent movers in the DIY music scene - Jimmy Lacoste, Clairo - have come from quite privileged backgrounds where traditionally people in that scene had fuck all.
But you and Uncle are totally right that in terms of practical knowledge, we can become more clued up than ever. But that does change our relationship to knowledge. Is there any value in being an expert anymore?
In many ways this has always been true, but I would suggest it is now less true than it was before, thanks to the free tools available to many more people.
Throughout my points Iāve been trying to state that while these various inequalities have always existed they are now more surmountable than ever before.
This ultimately is why this is the best time to be making mags, videos, music any media in any form.
The only people who would have strong cause to disagree would be members or beneficiaries of any boys club that is now threatened by the above.
