The NATO expansion debate is really skewed. Its an alliance of countries that will protect each other. Its a security organisation. Countries want to join it in order to be secure
Putin blaming NATO expansion as a reason for him invading another country is ridiculous. NATO has never initiated an invasion of a country - only reactively intervened. Like that ridiculous Kosovan war comment earlier, Serbia was committed a genocide against its Albanian people and NATO intervened. It wasn’t an invasion
I know he’s using NATO as an excuse but these countries wanted to join to be safer from Russia
Exactly, I have had another anti-vax person try to tell me that NATO caused this situation this morning. What is it with this lot? Where are they getting their information from?
Ukraine is an independent country with its own government. What the fuck has it got to do with Putin if they want to join NATO? Let them vote for their own future.
Nato expansion into Ukraine and the Crimea would have been of strategic importance to Russia akin to the threat to the US by USSR backing Cuba during the Cuban missile crisis.
I just like hearing opposing arguments before jumping to conclusions. I’m trying to understand why the Eastern part of Ukraine is more opposed to joining NATO or the EU than the Western part. It looks like a significantly divided country with competing value systems.
If we’d played a game this morning, and tried to predict which of us would be the one contrarian/apologist for the obviosuly bad side of this war, I’m 99.99% certain we’d all have picked the same fucknut.
You’re equating a country applying to be part of a security alliance with Russia placing nuclear missiles on an island within range of the US? How are they the same at all. This is the same logic Putin is using as an excuse. Just admit you’re a troll now and leave
At least 2 of us have family in the region, I wager most of have friends and/or colleagues pretty close to all this.
I’ve literally been on work calls today where we were talking about how we can relocate hundreds of normal, very nice people and their families from Kyiv into different countries so they don’t get hurt/killed/oppressed etc. Ever tried that? It’s every man for themselves at the moment, people can barely leave the city.
That’s not hyperbole. My family are worried sick, LT(amazing place) declared a state of emergency today because of border activity in Belarus, FIL is talking about signing up again if needed, and we’re trying to convince them to plan ahead how they’re going to get here if needed.
That’s because of Russia.
So forgive us if our patience wears a bit thin when some fucking cnut comes along telling us it’s not Russia’s fault. You think it’s some far away thing or some thought experiment or intellectual exercise that “really makes you think” and has lots of viewpoints and “fine people on both sides” etc. You either have your head up your fucking ass or you’re getting your ass licked so hard by propagandists on every topic that it’s become your default setting. Fuck you.
