I hear you point. It makes me think about the warnings around asymptomatic transmission. Have you seen any studies on the relationship between vaccine uptake and reduced transmission (would be interested in reading if you know of any)?
Of course this is all my opinion. This is a forum. We’re supposed to disagree and chat shit.
Who is is qualified to give their opinion if experienced doctors who argue for the right to refuse (based on years of medical practice and clinical judgement) are threatened with the sack?
I’d like to read the studies you obviously have about how immunity from previous infection is better than the vaccine. Over a controlled study of people.
Here you go, Imperial College London, which is a pretty trustworthy source:
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In every intervention you have to prioritise informed consent and the right to refuse. This relates to every medicine and treatment which is prescribed or proposed. The patient can refuse even if it is seen to be against their interests. It is the medical professional’s job to persuade the patient and explain the potential risks and benefits of a procedure.
If this doesn’t happen the patient is being coerced to take a medical treatment. If you threaten someone with losing their job if they do not accept a medical treatment it is coercion. You have to persuade someone using evidence instead of saying it is the consensus view. People may have personal, cultural, religious reasons for refusing and we should respect that and not dismiss them a anti-vaxxers who are a threat to everyone else. This argument is especially relevant now that many triple vaccinated patients are still catching and transmitting covid (albeit the milder strain of Omicron).
Yes but most things aren’t infectious and risk killing other people.
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Anti vaxxers are a threat to everyone else. Their attitude is selfish and stupid. NHS employees are healthcare workers - their job is to look after people in an environment that is ruled by peer reviewed science not some fucking hokum. If they don’t want to follow guidance and get vaccinated, they don’t get to work in healthcare. It’s not rocket science.
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Right but if protocol indicated a certain treatment would they still recommend and administer it to patients even if they’ve personally decided that the risks outweigh the benefits?
So you think it’s fine for an experienced midwife of 20 years to be fired from her career for refusing to take a vaccine (which doesn’t provide the high level of protection which it was supposed to provide since the vaccinated are still transmitting and bring infected) against a virus which she probably has natural immunity against?
The government aren’t talking about antibodies and natural immunity which makes me think that the mandates are more about social compliance than empirical evidence.
At the risk of repeating myself, I’d like to read the studies you obviously have about how immunity from previous infection is better than the vaccine when it comes to covid. Over a controlled study of people who have both.
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I don’t give a fuck if they’re Hippocrates himself. If you can’t follow basic science, you don’t belong in the NHS
Side question, @sotonjon how do you feel about climate change? Shape of the planet? 9/11?
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They use clinical judgement. The difficulty for them is that they are accountable for everything they prescribe or propose and any adverse events that result from their treatments.
Did you read my link? It’s from a reputable source which can easily be backed up, and states pretty much the opposite of what your getting at.
Employees of the NHS have a moral responsibility to take on board any peer reviewed guidelines and follow them. What would happen if a group of surgeons decided that washing hands and basic hygiene rules was a load of bollocks? Would the NHS just accept this and let them carry out open heart surgery with dog shit on there hands? No, because its mental, just like people refusing to get jabbed.
They absolutely have a choice on whether to take the vaccine or not. They just won’t be able to carry on working for the NHS if they decide against it.
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You’re a deluded fool.
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Id be interested in seeing how many of these NHS vaccine refusers are virologists. What with the NHS being massive and the fact that its perfectly possible for NhS workers to be idiots as well as the general public.
And yes, I would suggest they dont deserve to keep their jobs if theyre not willing to do THE PURPOSE OF THE FUCKING JOB IN THE FIRST PLACE, in a similar way to suggesting police that break the law shouldnt be police, and that personal trainers shouldnt be fat sweaty lumps, that journalists should be literate, carers should be caring etc do you see the pattern?
Quick question, what NHS workers do you think are right? The ones that do want the vaccine or the ones that don’t? Regardless of their reason for not wanting it.
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“Social compliance”……for what exactly? All these conspiracy theories but nobody can ever say why they would be trying to achieve social compliance or new world order or whatever.
I know why they want people to comply.
Because it stops them dying.
This is a good read on natural vs vaccinated immunity if you have time: https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101
Also: Protective immunity after recovery from SARS-CoV-2 infection - The Lancet Infectious Diseases
Antibody Status and Incidence of SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Health Care Workers | NEJM
How do you know if you have natural immunity? What about those ‘healthy’ people who died?
Just get the jab and pipe down ffs.
Their moon crystal wasn’t fully absorbing the chakra energy from venus so y’know, its their own fault really
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