It be fair there was a moment of people stopping their children getting child vaccines before covid as they said there was a (unsubstantiated) link to autism.
What do you do @sotonjon?
Because your whole argument seems to be hinged around forcing the NHS workers to do something.
Do you work for the NHS?
I do. I work as an auxiliary nurse on a medical ward
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Well that gives you a lot more insight than most of us. Is it working in the NHS that helped form your view on this issue?
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion. Probably working on covid and respiratory wards has given me an insight into patients with and recovering from covid-19. I can’t answer why I have a diverging opinion to many on this forum. But I’m opposed to mandates and believe that people should be able to research issues relating to covid and vaccines without being accused of misinformation or being an ‘anti-vaxxer’ or whatever. It’s not helpful to public discourse to smear others like this.
Nobody wants to be subjected to mandatory vaccinations. I think some of us just accept that we have to do things for the common good.
I am all for thinking for yourself and doing your own research, but surely you must very quickly come to the limit of your own capabilities? Is it possible to effectively research issues relating to covid and vaccines by Googling stuff? I really doubt it.
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Does a patient have the right to refuse treatment from a non-vaccinated NHS worker?
Well I assume the mandates were coming in so they dont have to
I’m generally pro-vaccine and I’ve had many vaccines in the past including two Pfizer/biontech covid vaccines. I still think that people should be allowed to refuse if they have reservations.
I agree that just by googling an issue doesn’t make you informed. There needs to be more information available including trial data and investigation of adverse events.
Honest question jon, how would you feel if one of your unvaccinated colleagues was working in the front line while having covid (unknowingly since infection occurs before symptoms), infected a room full of vunerable patients that they were working with, and killed them? Would you chalk it off to bad luck / risks of being in hospital etc?
In theory they can although almost all clinical staff will have been exposed to covid and will have antibodies. We’re also regularly testing so that if we test positive or have symptoms we do not come to work and spread the illness.
One of my best friends is unvaccinated and worked through the first wave. He hasn’t been off sick apart from when he caught covid in the first wave. I don’t understand why natural immunity isn’t discussed as being an effective protection against contracting and spreading the virus.
Most of the vulnerable patients will have been vaccinated and as a rule clinical staff do not come to work if they are sick. As to the point of asymptomatic transmission, is there significant evidence of this? With all other respiratory illnesses you can only spread it by being symptomatic and coughing out viral particles in proximity to others.
Yeah ok, I think maybe your point is that instead of mandating vaccine for NHS workers and threatening their jobs, maybe for that small subsection of society it might be fairer to run antibody tests on them to see if they need it. They would have to submit to all relevant testing of course, and they would have to agree to keep it current.
That’s an argument that might have got you a more sympathetic reaction, but you came in on a bit more of an obscure angle posting lots of links.
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If you have natural immunity that means you caught it at some point, which would have caused the potential scenario I put forward. Relying on frontline workers to wait and catch a virus that they might go to work not knowing they have doesn’t sound like much of a plan
Yes, like the fact that hundreds of thousands of people have been catching this thing every day for two years straight despite people generally staying away from others when they think they’ve got it.
I thought we can’t compare this with other illnesses? Otherwise we might have to treat the vaccine mandates surrounding them the same way
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At the risk of appearing to spam links, this is an interesting (but brief) article on asymptomatic transmission of covid-19 (and the difficulty in monitoring accurate levels).
I’m a vaccine enthusiast. Less certain about lockdowns
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That Study from Hopkin’s seems to have a few flaws which have been highlighted by a fair few commentators.
Some good breakdowns here by a Mathematician/epidemiologist
https://twitter.com/AdamJKucharski/status/1489529756592787460?s=20&t=7wz7fvPl3siGQCIWnYAlDQ
Also the one the thread he links from (Whipple - The science editor at the Times) is good
https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1489197128916389894?s=20&t=7wz7fvPl3siGQCIWnYAlDQ
In crude terms a hard lockdown will always work, it’s just weighing it up against the other factors eg: the economy etc.
2 years ago we didn’t have vaccines so really what other options were there bar even bigger amounts of deaths?
Now it’s more of a complicated situation where it’s figuring out when it’s best to fully open up and whether it’s the best decision.
Thankfully because of vaccines hopefully the UK’s current policies decision to fully open will work out ok. It does seem that we’re could hopefully be past this current peak.
Yes I think people have been misreading it. It doesn’t say that masks and social distancing don’t work. If I understand it right it says that people started doing it anyway, wherever in the world they lived and whatever the official policy, so the formal government lockdown part didn’t add much. I think they said the difference was 0.2%
And vaccines - yes. They work. I know this because I’m triple vaccinated and I caught it, and it was like a very mild cold.
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+1 for day long mild cold
Apparently Hapgood got it and was in bed for 11 days. No vax.